Guestbook

Timothy Woodall

I have only two options to allow posting here.  I can allow everyone to post or limited members.  I've always had it set to everyone, but I've removed this option as its just getting spammed too much and I don't have the time or desire to delete them all.  Most of these spams seem to be machine generated as they are word nonsense with maybe the word viagra linked somewhere.  The site I use to host my site doesn't really have a sophisticated enough system to weed out machine spamming.

No one is a limited member, so there will be no opportunity to post here for now.

Bella Ianuzelli

Interesting, the assessment on this site that the degree of "coercion" in this group is in the range of "medium." In my experience, no freedom of thought was encouraged, and to resolutely disagree with any tenet of the faith was to encounter a response of "agree with our position or face expulsion." It was never an idle threat.  What I perceived were high levels of peer pressure, compliance, consensus, and silence.

Bella Ianuzelli

They are an insular group, very much closed off from the world, very judgmental, very strict and draconian in their punishments for misbehavior.  Their doctrine is very narrow and you subscribe to it without questioning it, or they send you packing.  Few people join; it is those raised in the faith who primarily keep it in existence.  Women don't hold leadership positions, homophobia is promoted, and they are in theory pacifists, but in reality I saw instances of severe violence.  They "love bomb" you when you're a novice, then often ignore you once you're in the fold.  Perhaps most religions do this.  There are clichés, like in any denomination.  In our ecclesia a young visitor just passing through once complained about the poor welcome he'd received to churches further up the coast; the leading "elder" (for lack of a better word) drove up the coast in pursuit of him, to verbally accost him.  This same elder would ambush errant members by appearing at their front doors unannounced to dissect them with his mouth.  Sometimes people who are dissatisfied with their lives compensate for it by adopting a phony importance in some house of worship.  And some are just monsters.  The weirder the religion's doctrine, and the smaller the group, the more likely this is to happen.  Or so it appears to me.

mark

That's because most failed to realize that God said "2000 years".  The gregorian calendar was invented in 1582.. The year was not accurate.  And also many failed to figure out why Jesus said "No signs will be given except the sign of Jonah!".  Why he said that ?  Jonah story was not about his death/raise but also about 40 days Judgement warned.  Typical of 40 years Judgement on Israel and Jerusalem.  If you do math... we all know the history that Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70.  Easy math - 70-40 = 30.  Clearly, Jesus died and raised in AD 30.. 40 years later Jerusalem destroyed in AD 70... Now 2000 years from AD 30 is what ?  2030... However the bible said that Adam and Eve will marry on the sixth day which means Jesus will come before 2030 to give the judgement on his own believers then married... 2030 Jesus and the Saints will march out to the embattled Jerusalem... That is the truth.  Many failed to figure it out.  It's shame that they chased the speculation. They still do today.

bret

For my own reasons I have read much of the earliest church writers aka the early church fathers.  I want to include an excerpt from the apology of Aristedes dated about ad 125 in other words within one generation of the close of the new testament.  John Thomas did not rediscover the lost Truth, no more than the JWs or Mormons or Seventh Day Adventists. Christianity has been consistent from the beginning:

"The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High.  And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man.  This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.  This Jesus, then, was born of the race of the Hebrews; and he had twelve disciples in order that the purpose of his incarnation might in time be accomplished.  But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried; and they say that after three days he rose and ascended to heaven.  Thereupon these twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world, and kept showing his greatness with all modesty and uprightness.  And hence also those of the present day who believe that preaching are called Christians, and they are become famous."

Here then is a plain very early acknowledgement of both Jesus pre-existence and also full deity.

From another early source, the Epistle to Diognetus, here is a simple, eloquent explanation of substitutionary atonement which has been ridiculed in the Christadelphian community.

"it should now, through the kindness of God, be vouchsafed to us; and having made it manifest that in ourselves we were unable to enter into the kingdom of God, we might through the power of God be made able. But when our wickedness had reached its height, and it had been clearly shown that its reward, punishment and death, was impending over us; and when the time had come which God had before appointed for manifesting His own kindness and power, how the one love of God, through exceeding regard for men, did not regard us with hatred, nor thrust us away, nor remember our iniquity against us, but showed great long-suffering, and bore with us, He Himself took on Him the burden of our iniquities, He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal.  For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness?  By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God?  O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! that the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors! Having therefore convinced us in the former time that our nature was unable to attain to life, and having now revealed the Saviour who is able to save even those things which it was [formerly] impossible to save, by both these facts He desired to lead us to trust in His kindness, to esteem Him our Nourisher, Father, Teacher, Counsellor, Healer, our Wisdom, Light, Honour, Glory, Power, and Life, so that we should not be anxious[ concerning clothing and food."

I apologize for the length of this, but if there are any who wish to read further there are a number of very early texts.  Re-reading the marytrdom of Polycarp again, I find a belief in Satan, in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and in immediate reward upon death.  These writings provide a wonderful glimpse into both the eraliest Christians beliefs and also their manner of life.  They have been enormously helpful to me in my journey out of Christadelphia.

Ady Miles

This is a very interesting website.  It's always good for any religious community to test its beliefs and traditions.

roy

thanks for all this info, it has been very helpful

ejk

Pat, I am not surprised the way you were treated, I am not a christo, but had a theological relationship with CD's and know few which I found ok, but bit up themselves that they know it all.  At a lecture, one person said that John Thomas was inspired by God to rediscover the truth, but after investigating JT personally, I have found out that he was no different then you and I, he was not moved by God, he did not like everything Christianity preached so he got on the band wagon and started his own religion and passed on his views.  Then he wrote books, but copied other writers, called his books " original, authentic ", he was plagarist, but many christos don't know, or do not want to know.  I have heard Christos say" that they have been called out by God, that they alone hold the truth, they are priviledged to hold the key of knowledge to unlock the hidden secrets in the Bible, really, I see them now as nutty professors of the theologie, they have written off all other believers, " because we know" CD's like to think that they are kings with knowledge and can search out all.  And yes they watch middle east with hawk eyes for signs " Jesus is coming soon ".  Christ said " I will come like a thief in the night " so no one knows when, but we can only assume.  Are they a cult, perhaps not , but are a cult minded sect.

Pat

Are your members aware a group of Christadelphians went so nutty on their doctrine that it resulted in a small migration to Israel?  The folks believed the Second Advent was imminent, and sold all of their houses and possessions and went to await Christ's imminent arrival in the Holy Land.  Of course, the dear one never put in an appearance.  The result was suicide attempts, deportations, divorces, violence, incarcerations, bankruptcies.

And this is not a cult?  By whose definition does it not qualify?

And this was evident long before the above-mentioned migration.  In one church to which I belonged, the entire meeting was run based on fear of the church's self-appointed firebrand.

My experiences with this religion were nightmarish.

Pat

I was excommunicated for "marrying out of the Truth."  Meaning, I married someone outside of the religion.  Others, who had done likewise, were not excommunicated. When I protested the double standard, they then changed the reason for excommunication to "being too long absent from the Table of the Lord" (meaning, communion / services).  But I'd had two elderly relatives in diapers and wheelchairs to care for, and had been unable to attend services, because the relatives could not be left unattended.  The church was ten minutes from our house, but no one there came to sit with the old folks, so I could sometimes attend services, and it also occurred to no one to bring communion to us.  Such disciples of Christ.....

So they kicked me out.  And with each passing year, despite initial disorientation and confusion and unhappiness, I have become more and more certain I can never return to their meetings.  They are, it has become clear to me, a cult.

bret wickham

Hello.  I was unable to suggest via your feedback section.  I would like to publicize the incongruity between what john Thomas claimed and what the earliest church believed.  My wife and I left the CD org with our kids 3 yrs ago.  I am 7th generation.  Reading clement, Ignatius of Antioch and polycarp among others was invaluable for me.  These were the appointed leaders able to reach others after them (as per 2 Timothy and Titus) and they believe in the devil, demons, reward immediately at death in heaven with jesus, they worshipped Christ and referred to him as "God"...not what I was taught the early church held.  Please add this section to your excellent website.  I will help if you like.

R.S. Mani

Thanks for letting me.  join the site .....

keijo

I am so glad that confess Jesus as my Lord in the Holy Spirits power and be thankful for you all in faith for christ in grace and let us be big indeeds with God and be learn of the Holy Spirit and sowing our seed in blessing ,thanks and bless,keijo sweden

FreeToSave

Never underestimate the deceit and dishonesty that this group is capable of.  They spend all of their time dismissing others, babbling about prophecy, and claiming to read the bible.  I spent 14 years married to one, and ten years as one, and I've paid the price.

After being "in" for about 5 years, I was asked to repair the recording brother's ( and my father in laws) computer.  The reason for the problem was immediately apparent, sadly although he believed himself to be exceptionally clever, and have discovered what Christians for 2000 years had missed, he did not know how to cover his tracks on the internet.  All those hours in the "study" were really spent watching teenage girls perform oral sex on older men, no wonder his dismal exhortations and lectures were lacking content, and mostly sounded like quickly rehashed bits of the Christadelphian.  Oh well, at least it's young girls he's interested in!

Still, this is Christadelphianism, My brother in law certainly knew about the spirit, he drank enough of it in the strip clubs and casinos he spent his time in.  He always wore a nice suit to the meeting on a Sunday, and could always be relied on to "lecture" so that's OK.  Rule number 2, do as I say, not as I do.

When my wife had become bored, and had an affair, the "meetings" response was to cover it up, pretend it never happened, her Mother's was to advise her to take money, and hide it so that when she left me she would have plenty!

Sure enough, she did leave, The recording brother and his wife made all the arrangements, in secret, and booked my 2 children in with them to the so called Swanwick Christadelphian "Bible School" while the deed was done.  How Christian.

It later came to light that they had defrauded me of £14,000 too.  Never mind, i'd left the meeting by then, and it's OK to defraud people in the "world" isn't it?

My ex-father in law, the recording brother, continues to exhort and lecture, and my kids have to go to Sunday School.  He now has a new activity too, he's a big noise in the regional "Youth Group" too.

Oh, I forgot to say...my daughter turned 13 a few months ago.  That's right, she's a teenager!

Now, I'm sure some Christadelphian will pop up and delete this post, or a least make apology, and assure me that it's just individuals, they always do.  They are brethren and sisters, but when they misbehave they are all individuals.  And they always vote him back in too.

If you are looking for the truth, look elsewhere, they don't have it, in fact they don't even have the common decency that the world does.  They just have their own, insular, and out of date belief set that they use, along with their suits and hats and "meetings" to hide their own lies, dishonesty, and distortion.

Thank God I am free of them.

EJK

Relationship with christadelphians:from personal expirience is very difficult,looked upon as unbeliever,they are always correct in the theological discussions, a lot of J.Thomas and R.Roberts teachings, failed end time prophesies brushed away, so what everybody makes a mistake, no sir don't speculate then you will not end up with an egg on the face, difficult people to deal with.

Mark

"Christadelphian attempts to come up with a consistent theology have been equally complex." We believe that only the Father is God Most High.  Nothing could be simpler.

Sheila Rae

Love and greetings! Thanks for letting me join this forum.  My back ground is a Jehovah's Witness one.  My twin sister and I as well as my younger brother were born and raised in the Watchtower Society.  In 1997 I began to look more closely into the history and earlier teachings, which the members say does not matter if there were "mistakes" in interpretations made in the past "because (according to Proverbs 4:18 ) the light gets brighter and brighter" in other words, though through the past years,some of what the leaders of the WTS taught they CLAIMED that it was given by God, through Christ as "food from God’s table" had actually been error.  Most Jehovah's Witnesses do not think about the TIME that those errors were taught.  In other words, WHAT was taught WHEN.  For instance, they taught as long as I can remember that Christ returned invisibly in 1914, and chose the WTS as "The faithful and Discreet Slave" in 1919, but I learned that they had taught many years EARLIER that Christ had returned (invisibly) in 1874 and continued to teach this earlier date for his return clear down to 1929.  So if he had come in 1914, they definitely sure didn't know it.  LOL! Because in that year they were still teaching that he had returned earlier in 1874.  Sorry if I am boring you with all of this.

Anyway, I began to read the Bible on my own and discovered that many of the doctrines of the WTS were not in harmony with what the Bible actually teaches.  One of the big ones was their teaching that Satan and demons do not exist as spirit persons.

So I had begun a DEED personal Bible study on my own and began to see other errors that they are teaching even now.  I have not joined any other church.  I would call myself a non sectarian Christian.  I can see that just like the Watchtower Society, the Christadelphian movement is very judgmental of other believers outside of their own group.  Yes, just like the Christadelphians they cannnot see that just like the other churches, they ALSO do not have all "truith"! Yet prejudge the others thinking that "only THEY have THE TRUTH.  And like the Christadelphians, they refuse to recognize the FAITH of others outside their group.

It is very interesting to see how Christadelphians accept the teaching that Satan and demons do not exist and if anyone has an experience with a demon attack, they view the person as being mentally ill.  In other words, either mentally ill, or a liar.  To accuse another person as a liar when he is telling a true personal experience is not obeying Christ when Christ said to treat others the way they, themselves want to be treated.  It is also a terrible thing to do to TWIST Jesus own words as found in Scripture to make it appear that what is written that he said, is not what he said and putting a twist on it as being not what he meant.

As many of you know here that we are not going to be judged negatively on the basis of not knowing "all truth", even the apostle Paul said: "At this time, we see IN PART" and also as if we are seeing through a hazy mirror.  And 1 Cor 13 he said that we could even have the knowledge of God, but if we don't have LOVE, we are NOTHING.

Now the big thing I have against the WTS and the Christadelphians is because they PREJUDGE.  It is terrible the way the Christadelpians will not allow a non member to share the Lords Memorial with them because they are not baptized a Christadelphian.  At least in the WTS, they invite outsiders to attend or to celebrate the Lords Memorial with them, but the terrible thing is that they expect no one except a few exclusive members to eat and to drink (partake) of the bread and wine. (Another terrible doctrine of theirs which is definitely in error)

Well I didn't mean to write so much.  Just to let you know that I now know that the Christadelphians teach more truth than those in the Watchtower Society, yet sadly, they, too don't know that they are also making terrible mistakes that may bring them into negative judgment when Christ comes, because they have allowed the Leaders to push them into disobeying Christ when he said to "stop judging" "stop condeming", through their teaching of some false doctrines which they are not being cautious enough to reject.

I am interested in your stories and why most of you have left the Christadelphian movement.  Have some of you began to read the Bible on your own to discover that Satan and the demons are real spirit persons?

EJK

Most CD's I know are kind,but only we have the "TRUTH "people.Very busy religion,based on many meetings,bible study and lectures.CD's rubbish the mainstream christianity but fail to see their own backyard.Many failed predictions including J.Thomas R.Roberts and many others,tried to predict the end of the world as we know.So now they don't put dates but replaced it with "very soon".CD's should re read the bible and see what Christ have said: I will come like a thief in the night,no one to know the date or the time,but you don't get that.Big speculation of CD's:that they will be miraculously plucket out and taken to Mt.Sinai and judged by Christ and the wordhy will be given eternal life and they will assist Christ in running His kingdom on earth,what a myth.CD's are the chosen and called elite group,if you believe in such myth then your religion falls into cult category.Nobody is perfect including CD's.All wordly events are quickly tied to the Bible with more failures,and some of your teaching are also questinable like the main christianity,after all is the way you interpret the Bible and it is your view that does not make you right and if we don't agree with you we become "unbelievers".So sad,so many nice people,but believe they are above all,so "higher than thou"

Tim

I can understand you not wishing to discuss further, Kal, because this site makes a number of valid points and observations.  Many Christians that Christadelphians have "cursed" as "the apostacy" could make the exact same points you have made.  Our criteria has to be truth, not an attempt to suggest those who question "will not prosper".  A new religion that has a long list of exclusive criteria and never existed prior to the nineteenth century can hardly be described physically or spiritually as Israel or Jacob.

Kal

Tim.  I will leave this with you.  There is an important principle found in Num.23:21.  He has not observed iniquity in Jacob, Nor has He seen wickedness in Israel.  This was God’s assessment of the people, while in other places he calls them hard hearted, stiff necked and faithless.  While God was working with them to change them, none could curse them and prosper V20.  This is part of the Abrahamic blessing Gen.12:3.  Be warned.

Tim

Thanks for your thoughts, Kal.  I am happy to discuss things further, have no wish to censor you and many of our readers may have an interest too in the points you raise.  This is however a Guest Book, not a Forum.  I have re-instituted a forum we had previously and have posted your response there to allow for this.

Kal

Tim, I accept that your response is meant to be in good faith, but it is a bit like your main article in that it takes a superior position based on the assumption of mainstream normalcy & falsely weighted evidence.  Your use of generalizations makes most of your writings out of balance.  For example you say, ?a community can't be judged on a small share of badly behaved people in any church.  But when a church has certain predispositions and tendencies, then they do become mentionable and relevant.?  How bizarre, you suggest that your alleged long experience with Christadelphians has qualified you to identify certain predispositions & tendencies that are mentionable.  I would not challenge your experiences, but the generalizations and aspersions you make.  Also, it is true that all non-mainstream groups have certain peculiarities.  That?s just the nature of things.  I will add that my previous experiences with various Christian & non Christian groups has also qualified me to identify certain predispositions & tendencies that are both questionable & mentionable.  Furthermore, I also note that folks such as Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins et al, use the same argument against religion in general, and Christianity & Islam in particular, and on occasion go so far as to suggest suppression and other forms of penalty.  I?m sure that the same was also alleged against the believers in the first century, as in Acts.24:5 etc, and has been a general characteristic of history.  But all this is not really relevant.  There is a streak of general dishonesty in your whole presentation.  You blend together alleged behavioral issues with those who are disenchanted for one reason or another, whether justifiably or not, and then challenge/mock the beliefs of Christadelphians because they do not agree with those of the mainstream.  The real issue is whether what we believe is in accord with the Bible.  Nothing else really matters.  Unfortunately, I can only conclude that your web site is really designed to confuse and misdirect those who are vulnerable, whose welfare I pray for.  Although I could mention many core beliefs, I will mention only one teaching here and that is commonly held among all mainstream churches.  That is belief that God is a Triune God, comprising the persons of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.  For those interested, they can look at two books on this subject, both non Christadelphian and available from Amazon. ?When Jesus Became God?, by Richard E Rubenstein, and the other is ?The Doctrine of the Trinity?  by Anthony Buzzard & Charles F.Hunting.  The first shows how the leading lights of the church introduced the idea into the mainstream, and the second reviews quite comprehensively the historical & theological arguments in light of the scriptures.  May God bless those who seek for him, with light & truth.

Tim

Agreed Kal - a community can't be judged on a small share of badly behaved people in any church.  But when a church has certain predispositions and tendencies, then they do become mentionable and relevant.  I would question that the Christadelphian world view is a totally different one.  The view you have raised of the "world" and "the believers" is true to many churches.  The belief that one denomination has recovered the Truth is also common to many churches.  This site looks at some of the consequences of these kinds of beliefs on members and ex-members.  They are in probability similar to other denominations.  Many would also classify other Christians as "the world", "not loving the Father", "not following the apostles" and so forth.  Agreed other churches have their flaws just as the Christadelphians have theirs.  Some have done terrible things, e.g.  inquisition.  In some ways its a little bit unfair that Christadelphians are singled out, but this is my background and where I have come from.  Its also an area I am well informed about, having over 40 years life experience with them.  The claim that Christadelphian beliefs are not found in history in the combination found in the creeds (and usually/ historically considered essential) is true.  Socinians share some similarity to the Christadelphian view of the nature of God/ Christ/ the Spirit, but they differed on other matters in the statements of faith.  This has been scholarly researched with full referencing by Ruth McHaffie.  There can be found some folk with some of the beliefs if we do a prolonged enough search, which of course what a few Christadelphians have done to back up the incredible claims of a recovery of a lost faith.

Kal

I have been a member of the Christadelphian community for over 30 years.  I was not raised a Christadelphian, but became one by choice & belief.  Like any balanced person in our community, I admit that our community, like all others, has its small share of people who behave badly, both socially and morally.  Unfortunately, it has ever been so amongst those who claim to believe, whether today or in NT or OT times.  The Christadelphian view posits a totally different world view, one that endeavors to follow NT Christianity.  We either love the Father or we love the world (1.Jn.2:15-16).  In the final analysis, that is the choice that each of has to make.  Even in NT times when men heard the apostles and saw the miracles & works of God first hand, many turned aside from the truth because they loved this world (2.Tim.4:10).  That is why Paul exhorts us to set our affections on things above and not on things of this world (Col.3:1-10).  To mainstream Christianity, whether in the guise of catholic, orthodox or protestant, they almost all believe that the ?church?  is the kingdom of God on the earth.  On this basis they have gone to war, ruled kingdoms murdered thousands, destroyed all opposition, acquired property & wealth all in their defense of their supposed franchise.  They do not believe God, but call him a liar by their unbelief.  As for the charge in the main article that Christadelphian?s have a set of belief?s not seen in historical Christianity.  This is simply incorrect.  One only has to consider the similarities of the beliefs of the Polish brethren, the Racovian Catechism, Sozzini and numerous other smaller groups who were persecuted and slain by the mainstream churches, both catholic & protestant alike.

Susan Velasco

Friendly advise, STAY AWAY from those people.  Very dangerous and have nothing to do with GOD, they don't walk His ways.  I'd say very bad CULT.  People look nice at first but after a couple of years or less you get to see their real faces.  VERY BAD EXPIRIENCE.

FreeToSave

[susan webster] "Really need advise on depression" Susan, the group I belonged to had a couple of families that dominated all matters.  My wife's family was one of them.Almost any activity out side the group was confounded by the "need" to be at meeting activities.  For example, much needed family time at our holiday home had to be cut short to return for the meeting, under peril of criticism if we did not.  Thus a day of rest from our stressful jobs was replaced by a day of "meeting" when what we all needed was to run on the beach and the forest.  I suspect your friend is a good person who is troubled by what she sees within the meeting.  The cutting off from the "world" is subtly carried out, by forcing the brother or sister to make a choice between a meeting activity and a "worldly" activity.  Making the "wrong" choice will bring complaint or more damaging, being ignored.  I lived through 10 years of this before choosing to leave.  It is shocking that the Christadelphians have such an un-christian way toward their fellow man.  I concluded that they turned around their belief that "the majority is always wrong" to conclude that "the Christadelphian is always right" to explain the fact that it was OK to speak of others in a dismissive way and OK to visit strip clubs, casinos, and drink to excess, so long as you turned up in a suit for the meeting on time! If you suspect your friend has depression, you should urge her to seek medical help without delay.  I know to my cost that you cannot lift yourself from the condition without help, and the meeting CANNOT give the kind of help she needs.  If you cannot convince her, try to take her away on holiday and help her mingle with "normal" people.  The Christadelphians are a self reinforcing group, and time away will help.  Above all, support her, and give her an alternative.

Dorothy

[susan webster] This sounds much like what happened to my boyfriend.  He was a christadelphian in one eccelsia, but moved and joined another and has become much different and closed off.  Its terrible and very upsetting to me.

Liz

Opps, didn't actually write anything below! Hi Paul, I'm not entirely sure how I came about this site, although it was via facebook.  I'm intrigued by your comment that you seconded a proposition for disfellowship.  I find it hard to come to terms with the fact that a group of 'arranging brethren' can make a 'judgement' that can turn someone's life upside down when 'it is not for us to judge, but God'.  Maybe I'm trying to make life simple for myself by not getting bogged down in all the grey matter... At the end of the day lots of us have 'issues' that we may just not choose to air in public but keep hidden.  Many of these may cause us to be 'disfellowshipped' too.  Surely our aim is to reach the Kingdom and try to do so with as many like minded people as possible.

Liz

Paul Hosking says...

Hi Tim.  I must say I think you've done well to set up this website, and I pray your work on it will be blessed.  I've been saddened by an almost continuous drain of precious brothers and sisters away from our community, both by resignation and by disfellowship.  I've been close to a number of cases which I felt were the result of insensitivity and misunderstanding.  Once a long time ago I seconded a proposition for disfellowship, and over the years I have come to regret the position I took at the time as I have come to understand and appreciate different viewpoints.  Also I suspect we are putting a kind of barrier around "the Breaking of Bread" and making it into something that was never intended by the Lord Jesus.  I have just helped to establish a small new ecclesia in Totton where we are all keen to avoid any kind of disfellowship or resignation by getting to know one another really well, by encouraging free discussion on all matters, and by taking a full shared responsibility by all members without having an Arranging Committee, which can so easily become a Management Committee, and sometimes stifles communication rather than promoting it.  Also we have to learn to make the Bible our guide rather than Christadelphian tradition.  I value the Christadelphian heritage, but fear it can so easily become more important to us than the Bible.  All the five members at Totton are keen to recover lost members wherever we can, or support them in whatever way we can while barriers remain.

We have a new website www.tottonchristadelphians.org.uk and we are making a priority of sharing the bible with others.  We have lots to learn.  we are trying to keep a good relationship with our "parent ecclesia" Southampton, but we are trying to do a number of things differently.

Tip

I like the comment by Eric regarding the Bible Reading Plan.  It is far better to read less and reflect more upon the Word of God than simply 'read' the Bible through as a given.  As I read portions of the Daily Readings, I like to then rewrite the message that I believe that God is trying to teach me.  I do not interpret the Scriptures to my own ends, its just that by writing down my thoughts, I feel better able to put the teaching to a more practical us(application) in my daily life.

Great to have found this site and to read the various comments of others.

Eric

Susan, I know how you and your daughter must feel, for if the group she has
married into, stick to the Reading Plan, it can mean that she has some nights up
to 8 chapters of the scriptures to read from 3 different parts of the Bible, I could not
ever understand this approach, as I feel it is too much to take in at one time, I would sooner than spend 1 hour or more reading all that, spend 10 to 15 minutes
reading one chapter and the other 45 minutes, reflecting on what was written.

Eric Moore

I have found your website most interesting, I have not put my e/mail Address up.
because I do not know if it can be seen by all who pass through this site, but you
will know me from the Facebook Group CWW site.

susan webster

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for all your advice and i will assure my Daughter that she can take her bible teachings at her own pace this may help her greatly.

Both my Daughter and myself were christened into the Catholic Faith, neither of us attend Church, although we have always prayed to god.  As for myself God is my constant companion as i talk to him daily, for me God is God it matters not what the religion may be, but that we understand the importance of God in our every day lives.

For my Daughter who now lives in Australia and is recently married the importance of her converting to the Christadelphian teachings is an important one as it is her husbands wishes that she converts, and because of the love she has for her husband she does not want to fail him, so going at her own pace will be so much better for her, and she will therefore not be so overwhelmed as she is at the moment.  The bible teaching take place in the home and she has homework weekly i have met the Teacher and he is such a lovely man and does put you at ease, so i am sure if my daughter explains how she is feeling he will understand completely. So thank you for putting both our minds at rest,........ Sue

Paul Hosking

I can understand your concern if your daughter finds the 'whole Bible' rather overwhelming.  Christadelphian Bible Classes can vary so much in the 'depth' and 'range' of their topics, and a Bible Class program or schedule is usually devised by a small committee who may choose a range of topics to be studied over the course of a year, or perhaps a shorter period.  I have devised Bible Class programs myself, one year I was twice asked to devise a 6 month plan on my own, but usually it was in a committee of 3 church members.  Our goal was to have a range of subjects that would give ordinary church members who were willing to 'speak' at Bible Class, something to study and prepare a talk on that would stimulate thought and discussion, help people to understand Bible characters and their relationships to God, and identify the teachings that are important and relevant to our lives.  We also felt it was important to ensure a good balance between different parts of the Bible, and that we did not concentrate so much on one part that we neglected other parts, as it was all 'The Word of God'.

Because church membership tends to be fairly static, it is very easy to fall into the habit of assuming prior knowledge with many subjects, and this is why newcomers to our Bible Classes may find things heavy going.  Really it is the responsibility of Bible Class planners and speakers to ensure they do not go 'over the heads' of those less familiar with their subjects, or perhaps their 'jargon'.  But it might help if you can encourage your daughter not to be afraid to ask people to 'slow down' or 'keep things simple'.  It is all too easy in a new environment to be 'carried along' by the tide, but it does not have to be that way.  Your daughter will be much happier in her new situation if she can learn to develop at her own pace, and it is most important that she learns to develop a personal relationship with God (and that's easier said than explained, but I could try to explain if you would like me to).  People can let us down sometimes (even if they are Christadelphians!) but God will never let us down.  He is the one to trust above all others, and we can always, always pray for His help.

susan webster

I need help and guidance to understand your religion.....

My daughter recently married and is in Australia her husband is a Christadelphian and my daughter is being converted, and has bible classes each week....

When i visit i too have attended bible classes, as i need to understand and be comfortable in understanding yr religion.  I have found everyone too be lovely in the family but there is a huge emphasis on my daughter learning all the scriptures, and i do worry about that sometimes as she becomes overwhelmed at times, am i silly to worry..........

Becka

Hi Paul, I agree with you completely about the way a lot of meetings are being led.  I feel the best meetings are the smaller ones, they are more friendly and family like.  Bigger congregations become so badly organised, members just leave themselves to be led without any input and there are often splits where one half don't talk to the other.  I do however feel that when yougsters are baptised it is sometimes not made clear the kind of life change which should be followed, the worldly sacrifices they must make in order to follow Jesus' example, which results in disfellowship.

Paul Hosking

Hi Tim.  I must say I think you've done well to set up this website, and I pray your work on it will be blessed.  I've been saddened by an almost continuous drain of precious brothers and sisters away from our community, both by resignation and by disfellowship.  I've been close to a number of cases which I felt were the result of insensitivity and misunderstanding.  Once a long time ago I seconded a proposition for disfellowship, and over the years I have come to regret the position I took at the time as I have come to understand and appreciate different viewpoints.  Also I suspect we are putting a kind of barrier around "the Breaking of Bread" and making it into something that was never intended by the Lord Jesus.  I have just helped to establish a small new ecclesia in Totton where we are all keen to avoid any kind of disfellowship or resignation by getting to know one another really well, by encouraging free discussion on all matters, and by taking a full shared responsibility by all members without having an Arranging Committee, which can so easily become a Management Committee, and sometimes stifles communication rather than promoting it.  Also we have to learn to make the Bible our guide rather than Christadelphian tradition.  I value the Christadelphian heritage, but fear it can so easily become more important to us than the Bible.  All the five members at Totton are keen to recover lost members wherever we can, or support them in whatever way we can while barriers remain.

We have a new website www.tottonchristadelphians.org.uk and we are making a priority of sharing the bible with others.  We have lots to learn.  we are trying to keep a good relationship with our "parent ecclesia" Southampton, but we are trying to do a number of things differently.